Its a word that really should be used strictly for God. And then Steve, what are some objections you hear from Protestants to Catholics that you dont think are good? But if their authority is a Roman Catholic church and the Magisterium, then it becomes an authority issue because then youre submitting to an authority that is also teaching something different about salvation that has nothing to do with these dogmas. Click the link in the description below to go through to the greatest Catholic prayer and meditation app on the planet. The 34-yard field goal came with just :03 seconds to play, lifting the Bills to 4-4 on the season. Oh, absolutely. Locals is a free speech platform. The late twentieth-century Christian apologist Francis A. Schaeffer saw Christian apologetics as " pre-evangelism " - a way to prepare the mind and heart for the Christian message (the Gospel). And I could talk about what that verse means in a lot of different context, but what is the difference between being sinful and becoming sin? . And in the new Testament, the specific Greek word for savior is used about two dozen in times, and every time that its used in scripture, in the New Testament, it always refers to God or Jesus being a savior of salvation and saving someone from sins, which is why I brought up Acts chapter five and The Epistle of Titus. So for example, I think Steve is right that the use of the word [inaudible 01:43:59] in Luke 1:28 does not, in and of itself, prove the immaculate conception. So for example, if a Protestant listens to todays debate and agrees with Trent and Calvin and Luther that Mary didnt have children, could he still, in your view, be a good Protestant Christian? Yeah, no, no, no. St. Jerome, who was skeptical of the manuscript history behind these books, even tells us that at the Council of Nicaea the deuterocanonical work of Judith was considered part of the canon of Scripture. When Mary said, I know not man, in Luke 1:34, does this indicate a vow of perpetual virginity? Second Corinthians is clear, God made him who knew no sin to become sin for us. If you want to go more into that, my book, The Case for Catholicism has a chapter on the immaculate conception. My argument is how the word adelphos is specifically is used to the New Testament Greek. Chris Christie is one of six Catholics among the 17 candidates running for the Republican nomination in the crowded 2016 presidential race. But before we do that, I want to say thank you to our sponsor, Hallow. Yeah. To say here Richard [Bachum 00:28:46], for example, who rejects, a Protestant scholar who rejects the Perpetual Virginity of Mary says, Its strange Jesus is called the son of Mary in Mark 6:3, rather than the son of Joseph. But that would make sense if Jesus had been born of Josephs second wife, Mary. And of course we can get into the whole Latria and Dulia argument, but thats not what this debate is actually about. Brant Pitre has some great work on Mary as well for people to check out. Trent had mentioned about Elijah and Enoch being assumed to heaven. We honor our father who is in heaven, and we give honor to Mary, who is the mother of God that brought our savior into the world. So, if the greatest of those born before Christ wasnt constricted to accepting the canon Christie is defending, then we shouldnt be compelled to do the same, either. Steve Christie Geoffrey Stephen Christie Position: K 6-0 , 195lb (183cm, 88kg) Born: November 13 in Oakville, Ontario (Age: 55-107d) College: William & Mary Weighted Career AV (100-95-. Just a weak reference to Mark chapter three. It has to be interpreted charitably, or its possible there might be an error in a magisterial statement recounting history, but that doesnt apply the charism to the doctrine itself. [inaudible 00:57:25] the son of Mary is odd. In week 7 vs. the San Diego Chargers, Christie kicked a 29-yard field goal with just :11 seconds to play, forcing the game into overtime. Yes. Philosophy program at Talbot. Jesus became sin, thats why he died. So our listeners can go there to read that. Well, I would say that it contradicts it because if she was indeed sinless, Mary would not have been bodily assumed into heaven for the reasons I stated in my opening statement. You can finish your thought, if you want real quick, Steve. They would be sons from another marriage. Jesus does not rebuke her. This also contradicts the biblical purpose of an assumption. I would argue that the dogmas are not explicitly mentioned in Scripture and they do not affect salvation. And Catholics are very clear, we do not believe anything that contradicts what we find in sacred Scripture. No. It is forbidden to any man to change this, to oppose and counter it. However, he should have cited what Jimmy said immediately before that quote: It wasnt entirely clear to every group of Jews exactly what books belonged in the Old Testament., Akin goes on to write that Jesus and the apostles went a bit further than the Pharisees on the issue of the canon. While the Greek word adelphos, translated brothers, can have numerous meetings in scripture, the specific Greek word adelphi, translated sisters, only has two. As a matter of fact, if you want to, immediately after this debate, I made two videos. Scripture reveals Mary was a Virgin, but conflicts with her being a perpetual Virgin. Facebook So it is quite shocking. Some of the ways Trent and I would agree that a dogma contradicts scripture is explicitly, implicitly, or partially. 0. But even St. Louis de Montfort who uses very lofty language of Mary says of her that she is but one Adam in comparison to the infinite and majestic glory that is God. Christie, who grew up in Oakville, Ontario, graduated from The College of William and Mary and made his NFL debut with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1990. I had mentioned about the immaculate conception not being declared ex cathedra because this was before Vatican I in 1870 that declared that when a Pope declared something ex cathedra, then its considered infallible. Thank you very much, Trent. GANYARD: It sure is, George. And by the way, hi, Jeff. Born And again, just to give an example in the Septuagint, in the Book of Sirach, which is inspired for Trent, but its not inspired for me, it uses the Greek word [Greek 00:47:52], which is a masculine form of [Greek 00:47:55] when it says, Hail Mary, full of grace. And its used to describe a man who is full of grace. Look, weve got 737 people watching and only 492 likes. I do remember in that debate with James White five years ago, saying, Our theology should come from the Bible, not the Bible from our theology. And I was not arguing for Sola Scriptura. EDWARD D. ANDREWS (AS in Criminal Justice, BS in Religion, MA in Biblical Studies, and MDiv in Theology) is CEO and President of Christian Publishing House. It refers to a natural sister as well or a biological [inaudible 01:15:42]. . But when the Bible talks about a firmament, that talks about an ancient, incorrect view of the heavens. Though, I will say the Septuagint was completed only within a few centuries, possibly even one century, by the time of Jesus crucifixion. Or Enoch and Elijah who never died because they were assumed alive into heaven. The second best result is Steven Luke Christie age 40s in New Hyde Park, NY in the Garden City Park neighborhood. And see, heres the thing. And if you look into church history, these dogmas were not all agreed upon. None of the authors of the deuterocanonical books refer to a delineated list of writings (Hebrew, Ketuvim) within a closed Hebrew canon that did not include their own works. He claims this shows Jesus believed the Old Testament was confined to Genesis (or Abel) and 2 Chronicles (or Zechariah). According to Methodist scholar David A. deSilva, New Testament authors weave phrases and recreate lines of arguments from Apocryha books into their new texts. He mentioned about the Septuagint. When Matthew 1:25 writes, Joseph kept Mary a virgin until she gave birth to a son, the specific Greek words [foreign language 00:02:06] when translated until, is used consistently in the New Testament to refer to a change in condition. Email steve.christie@mrcaustralia.com.au. I dont know if I would. Finally, the point about Mary dying, I think Steve was really missing this here. So this next question is for you, Steve. Hallow.com/mattfred, click the link in the description below. A fully independent, lay-run, 501(c)(3) ministry that receives no funding from the institutional Church, we rely entirely on the generosity of everyday people like you to keep this website going with trustworthy, fresh, and relevant content. Thats just being read into the text. So hes just talking about this birthright that he mentions about 10 versus later. They also allude to events and stories contained in these texts. For a long time, a noted Christian apologist has publicly staked out a position that challenges the literal claims in the Book of Genesis but another apologist warns that position is a dangerous denial of truth and scripture. Advertisement "God gave us the greatest apologist of this. That has not been handed down to us but that she was assumed in heaven was even though [inaudible 01:06:39]. Really enjoying this. So lets take a look at them. Honestly, Id have to think about it. As Christians, we should not believe things that contradict the Word of God. A Real Ale Loving Scottish Crime Writer. For example, Jesus said among those born of women none was greater than John the Baptist (Luke 7:28)and John was not a Pharisee. He did exactly what Jesus did. Jesus Christ did not inherit original sin, but he became sin which is why the father had to turn away from him. So Steve, we agree And I didnt mean to bring up the dogma Theotokos mother of God in any kind of underhanded way or way to go against our previous agreement because when people hear Marian dogmas, they think of the four of them. Thats right. And I also want to thank Trent for picking the particular title on how it was actually described because I had mentioned, Hey, lets just do the Perpetual Virginity of Mary. And hes like, Lets do all three of them. So it was Trents idea. So thats all up there as well. Its a good question. Its on my YouTube channel BornAgainRN. So does the Bible say Mary gave birth to anyone besides Jesus? So Steve is saying that the word adelphi, which means sister. 15. ): 32 (3488th overall since 1960) High School: Trafalgar ( Canada ) 2 2 8 2 SUMMARY Career G 229 AV 45 FGM 336 FGA 431 XPM 468 XPA 473 Career Postseason 1990 1991 I mean, to quote Jimmy Akin, when he was asked, Did all the early church fathers agree? He says, Boy, did they not all agree? 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